Vive la différence
What is the big deal? What people do is all that matters. What do ethnic differences have to do with it? Quit harping on it.
People are theoretically equal under the law. Forget about political correctness, hate crimes, or anything else that pits race against race and just appreciate people as people. We like some and do not like others.
Vive la différence. Try it. You may enjoy this perspective.
I agree Nick. Vive la différence!
I love different - and I embrace difference and I enjoy being around it. Culture, Food, Smells, Laughter, all of it.
Maybe that's why I like to travel the world so much. I think one of my daughters is going to be like me. She is off to Italy tomorrow by herself.
Chareese,
I'm actually more encouraged by race relations in this country than I have ever been. I'm pleased and proud for America. We are actually leading the world away from idiot compartmentalizations such as "mulatto". What gave white people the right to make such distinctions? It was, as I said, a vestige of colonialism and America's white racist past.
Claiming such a distinction today is an anachronism. If Obama self-identified as white, he might be in seen in the same light as people like Alan Keyes, Clarence Thomas and James David Manning--self-identified white men, all.
BB
When I was early 30 something (a few weeks ago....LOL) I quit my job because my boss was an obsessive compulsive control freak, and I headed off to Europe for 8 weeks...alone. It was awesome. I hope your daughter has a great time.
rikker,
I am too until I come to this forum and see this kind of archaic conversation going on. It not only saddens me, but serves no purpose. Obama is whoever he wants to be, or identify with, and should be of no concern whatsoever to anyone else.
Glad to see you back.......hope all is well on the home front. (-:
BB, in order to truly love difference, you must have roots: a psychological perspective from which difference can be appreciated within a higher perspective.
America is a country built on ideas rather than tradition. The ideas provide the roots. The roots are being lost so we are losing our capacity for a quality of perspective within which differences can be collectively appreciated.
That is the future of the Progressive tradition. It has ideals but no roots so must sink further into social slavery when confronted with ineviable conflict.
Nick - are you saying I have no roots? That I will sink into social slavery when confronted with conflict?
How are the roots being lost? Because I choose to listen to the Beatles? Because white kids choose to listen to rap? because NONE of us choose to listen to Lawrence Welk, preferring Yo-yo ma? I think appreciation of other people's culture is not any indication of rejection of your own.
Annie
I had NO idea that SPG was such huge a bigot and a bither. We gave her HELL today on another thread. She deserved it.
No Annie, You didn't give me HELL (yesterday). All you gave was a show of your juvenille, playground name calling antics that somehow turned into a perverted little rift (again). You appear to be a sexual deviant and I actually find that rather dangerous being that you spend so much time on the computer. God only knows what you're doing on other websites . . . luring the unsuspecting?? I hope somebody has a close eye on you (at least for the sake of minors). You're disgusting.
Chareese Laura Pratt - Go F* yourself.
Valtrex Boy - Got sores?
And as far as Obama goes . . . . He has an identity crisis. He cannot accept who he is and presents himself as someone else, therefore he is rendered a FRAUD.
BB and rikker, you underestimate what I mean by roots. This is not surprising since these things are rarely discussed in public.
Simone Weil wrote "The Need for Roots" as she was dying from TB. It was her contribution to rebuilding France after Hitler's devestation. T.S. Eliot wrote in the preface to Simone Weil's "The Need for Roots:" "This is one of those books which ought to be studied by the young before their leisure has been lost and their capacity for thought destroyed; books the effect of which, we can only hope, will become apparent in the attitude of mind of another generation."
The ideas contained within it are kept from the young which damages their "roots."
Jacob Needleman explains the value of ideas within American culture which feeds the roots in his book "The American Soul."
Our world, so we see and hear on all sides, is drowning in materialism, commercialism, consumerism. But the problem is not really there. What we ordinarily speak of as materialism is a result, not a cause. The root of materialism is a poverty of ideas about the inner and outer world. Less and less does our contemporary culture have, or even seek, commerce with great ideas, and it is the lack that is weakening the human spirit. This is the essence of materialism. Materialism is a disease of the mind starved for ideas.
Throughout history ideas of a certain kind have been disseminated into the life of humanity in order to help human beings understand and feel the possibility of the deep inner change that would enable them to serve the purpose for which they were created, namely, to act in the world as conscious,individual instruments of God, and the ultimate principle of reality and value. Ideas of this kind are formulated in order to have a specific range of action on the human psych: to touch the heart as well as the intellect; to shock us into questioning our present understanding; to point us to the greatness around us in nature and the universe, and the potential greatness slumbering within ourselves; to open our eyes to the real needs of our neighbor; to confront us with our own profound ignorance and our criminal fears and egoism; to show us that we are not here for ourselves alone, but as necessary particles of divine love.
These are the contours of the ancient wisdom, considered as ideas embodied in religious and philosophical doctrines, works of sacred art,literature and music and, in a very fundamental way, an indication of practical methods by which a man or woman can work, as is said, to become what he or she really is. Without feeling the full range of such ideas, or sensing even a modest, but pure, trace of them, we are bound to turn for meaning.
This form of nourishment which can permeate the quality of culture and feed "roots" are vanishing and now are only available to a small minority. Unfortunately I believe Simone is right and it's all over but the shouting. she wrote:
"Who were the fools who spread the story that brute force cannot kill ideas? Nothing is easier. And once they are dead they are no more than corpses." Simone Weil
She's right. All that will be left is a greater striving for materialism in the attmpt to fill the ever growing hole in the heart. The heart dies since human roots can no longer draw nourishment from societal values that can feed it. From dust to dust.
So, Nick I am not sure where you are going with this - but supposing that my family and I have no roots and don't know who we are as a family or as Americans - is just wrong. You are assuming that one cannot see through the materialism running rampant in America to the underlying greatness and foundations of our nation - and define ourselves as Americans, as members of a community, and as individuals. Not true.
My family knows very well who they are - what makes our family different from other families - our traditions and beliefs, our strengths, and our foibles. And yes - we even know our neighbors. We still borrow sugar and bring gifts to our neighbors - we take care of their plants and animals when they are gone - we know the names of their children and where they go to church - and we wander over and pass the time in the evenings on each others lanai.
And knowing ourselves and who we believe we are - does not stop us from embracing others
SPG - you are losing it. Nothing that was said yesterday is as "juvenile" as that tirade you just posted.
Hey Nick,
You're wasting your time. You obviously "get it" . . . the others do not.
"Borrowing sugar from a neighbor" Seriously?
SPG - you are losing it. Nothing that was said yesterday is as "juvenile" as that tirade you just posted.
At least I'm not a sexual deviant or an internet predator.
Oh and one other HUGE thing I have going for me is that I'm not Laura Pratt either.
How's your "penis arm", St. Pulls-The-Puds?
Nick,
You surprise me. How can you post such erudite ideas about materialism vs a purposeful life and still be a birther? Don't you see the dichotomy there? Birthers live in an alternate reality. Your comments about being able to make an educated vote are a flimsy ruse. Truthfully, you wouldn't vote for Obama even if his parents were George Washington and Aretha Franklin. The birther underpinnings are a cheap excuse.
And on the other hand, you've quoted an obviously intelligent, perceptive individual.
What gives? You're straddling a fence, buddy. You either live in the intelligent world or you live in SPG-land with the other waterheads.
Which is it?
SPG said: "Oh and one other HUGE thing I have going for me is that I'm not Laura Pratt either"
Yeah, but you can't add and multiply. SO Laura's got you beat.
Claiming such a distinction today is an anachronism. If Obama self-identified as white, he might be in seen in the same light as people like Alan Keyes, Clarence Thomas and James David Manning--self-identified white men, all.
LMAO - THIS is written by none other than the self proclaimed "Master of Vocabulary", Valtrex Boy.
Are those sores on your hands healing, Pull-A-Girl?
Rikker, I sent you a PM. Please check. Thanks.
Annie
How's your "penis arm", St. Pulls-The-Puds?
It's really a shame that people have trusted you (a supposed professional) to care for their sick family members. It's probably a good thing that you don't practice nursing any longer because you would for sure, lose your credentials.
See, you really don't know what is in a person's soul . . . . what they might be capable of. Who on earth would think that a (so called) nurse would engage in this kind of talk on the internet? It is truly disgusting, moreso because of her career choice. I just hope parents keep their children off the internet and far away from Annie as she clearly has a problem.
Annie
Are those sores on your hands healing, Pull-A-Girl?
You really do have a obsession with internet sexual deviant behavior, don't you?
What would your children think of you if you allowed them to read what you write?
You must be one terrific mother.
Paulie, it's obvious, you know nothing about Florence Nightingale. Some of the best nurses in the world have been staunch activists and vocal, if not obnoxious at times. My tirades against you, though, have nothing to do with my nursing acumen. Get a grip, sweetie.
Paulie, obviouisly, you know nothing about Florence Nightingale. Some of the best nurses in the world have been staunch activists and vocal, if not obnoxious at times. My tirades against you, though, have nothing to do with my nursing acumen. Get a grip, sweetie.
OMG - You are not seriously comparing yourself to Florence Nightingale, are you? Talk about someone needing to get a grip !!
And Annie, you are a disgusting pig, not just an obnoxious one.
See, you just proved you don't know a thing about Florence Nightingale. I'm a much better nurse than old FloDawg.
SPG quoted Rikker's errant statement: "he might be in seen in the same light as people "
You're right about that, SPG. Sometimes I type so fast that I mis-speak. This sentence is flawed.
At least I'm intelligent enough to admit when I make errors. You spent WEEKS defending a retard's understanding of profit % and enduring the silent laughter of your friends and allies. All of them knew you were being punked. None of them warned you. They let you prattle on. Run Forrest!! Run!!!
Hey Valtrex Boy - Only in your mind are you correct about the profit.
You should only see who is laughing at you . . . . but that's old News.
I'm more interested in your vocabulary 'mistake' now. It was a gem, but only because you had the balls to proclaim yourself to be a MASTER OF VOCABULARY.
Didn't think I'd catch that "mistake" did you?
LOL - My day is made !!!!
The award for most hilarious statement on this thread goes to SGP for posting the following nonsense...
"And as far as Obama goes . . . . He has an identity crisis. He cannot accept who he is and presents himself as someone else, therefore he is rendered a FRAUD."
The President has no identity crisis. He knows that he is Black. I mean think about it. He has known that since he was a little kid. However, SPG has decided that she is the judge on how people should view themselves. Amazing.
In SPG's warped and myopic view, the President is a fraud because he following the social views and attitudes of the time in which he grew up and by his skin color identified himself as "Black"....He has identified himself this way since he was a young man. Yet that is not suffcient for SPG. She has decided that he should identify himself as a "mulatto", a derogatory term, because that is the way allegedly people who are of mixed backgrounds (Black and White) in St Paul, MN identify themselves.
Fortunately for us America is becoming more elightened in regards to race. I have multiple friends in interracial relationships with children (who I would never address as a mulatto) that think nothing of race in any sort of negative context anymore. These are the signs that this country is evolving. Some people will never get it, and that's too bad.
However it is also good to see that SPG's ridiculous tirade regarding the President being some sort of "fraud" because he sees and identifies himself a Black was not cosigned by anyone else. I know on this forum we are supposed to respect people and their opinions, even ones that attempt to set us back 50 years in race relations. But I am an optimist and see the glass as half full, meaning that this country is moving ahead. Hopefully we can get to a point that we move beyond the social construction as race and decide to judge someone on what they do and who they are.
Black Lion: you've read and heard the phrase "color me stupid"? That's St. Pallid.
Black Lion . . . (yawn)
Just because some guy who happens to be "mixed" decides to identify himself as a black man, that doesn't me the rest of the world has to go along with it. He is Mulatto - there is no denying that. It's not a secret, although Obama would surely like it to be locked away in the vault with the rest of his life. He has the identity crisis going on, but I'm the bad guy for recognizing it. Get real.
So, Pallid, you'd like to have a "percentage requirement" of DNA and "blood" so one can refer to themselves as black?
You're becoming more idiotic and moronic by the minute.
BL said: "The President has no identity crisis. He knows that he is Black."
Why is he black? I have to take issue with that. Obama CHOOSES to identify with black people. But he was NOT raised as a black person. His outlooks are due to a few minor prejudicial incidents and his knowledge of American history.
He didn't grow up in a ghetto or near one. He didn't have to fistfight as a youngster, or learn to play the dozens, or....
Hmmmmmm. You know what? It just occurred to me that I'm not as black as I thought I was. Those two things (fistfighting and playing the dozens) are my only uniquely black cultural items, too. I grew up catching frogs and playing baseball and skiing and skating and fumbling around with the girl next door until she broke up with me due to ineptitude. Fairly normal American things. I had to be taught how to say MF like a black person, because my cousins said that mis-using that particular curse word like a white person would invite ridicule. but that's about it.
I wonder what Obama's experience was?
LOLOLOL.....SPG, you still know how to take ignorance to the next level. After 2 days you still enjoy using an inherently nasty, offensive, and possibly racist term that you have no right to use. Even when people who are mixed have informed you that the term is not correct nor to be used. But I guess since you have decided to self identify yourself as ignorant, there is nothing anyone can do about that. Fortunately for us you are in a very small minority.
And whether or not you want to accept it, most of the world identifies the President as he identifies himself, as Black. So unfortunately for you and your ilk, most people accept his decision and identify him the way he would be identified in 1971, as Black.
And whatever is locked away in any vault is none of your business. Since he is doing what every other President has done, those not suffering from Obama derangement syndrome like you understand that. It is not too late. You can get help for your problems.
I will say this, if you are representative of how people think in St Paul, MN, I am glad I have no reason to visit that city. I would not be too accepting of someone calling me a "mulatto"...
So, one can only identify as a black if they live or lived in a ghetto? Is that right, rikker?
So, Pallid, you'd like to have a "percentage requirement" of DNA and "blood" so one can refer to themselves as black?
Ut Oh - Looks like the tide is changing . . . . Note your buddy's comment above.
Black Lion - I was being polite calling him Mulatto . . . .
Should we leave it at that, or would you like to know what most people call him?
And BTW - Nobody on this forum has identified themselves as being "mixed". Maybe you thought you had?
Rikker good points. For Black people that grew up in the suburbs in middle class to affluent neighborhoods, they might have not thought about what exactly it means to be "Black", but they were reminded of it every day in school when they were a small percentage, every time they were followed in a store for no reason, or when parents wouldn't allow their kids to play with them. No matter who you grew up with, those experiences happened. So you quickly learned that no matter what, you were "Black" first and foremost, no matter how light you happend to be. That was just how it was at that time. Fortunately for us things have evolved and it is somewhat better, and could be a lot better. And as for MF, if I had used that term in my house my mother would have killed me, even though I loved it when Richard Pryor would say it....
Rikker
You surprise me. How can you post such erudite ideas about materialism vs a purposeful life and still be a birther? Don't you see the dichotomy there? Birthers live in an alternate reality. Your comments about being able to make an educated vote are a flimsy ruse. Truthfully, you wouldn't vote for Obama even if his parents were George Washington and Aretha Franklin. The birther underpinnings are a cheap excuse.
And on the other hand, you've quoted an obviously intelligent, perceptive individual.
What gives? You're straddling a fence, buddy. You either live in the intelligent world or you live in SPG-land with the other waterheads.
Which is it?
You've written this only because you like so many others have forgotten that it is only through the awareness of obligations initiating with a higher origin that rights become possible.
Simone Weil is in a unique position to vivify this question because she lived all its parts. She was an atheist and Marxist admired by Leon Trotsky and died a Christian mystic and intellectual influence on Pope Paul Vl. She was not a follower but instead verified her own philosophy by living it. Her life was a continual experiment in search of truth.
In The Need for Roots she elaborates on the necessary balance between obligations and rights necessary to sustain a free society that serves the soul of Man.
This isn't something we are capable of through our own volition but something that can be awakened in Man's psych with help from above in the form of "grace."
Obligations are our link to the spiritual while rights are what we personally strive for. it is obligations that make rights possible.
It might be a truism that true change in a society cannot occur unless there is a subjective change as well. There is an example of this in alcohol or drug treatment programs. Unless the person wants to change, all the counseling and the support groups will not make a person change.
For Weil, on the social level, this is true of societies as well. In her analysis of history and revolutions, she showed that every revolution ultimately replaced one form of oppression with another. For her, this showed that the reality of history is struggle for power. This is why she believed that for true change, a spiritual awakening must occur in individual conscience.
Take an example: why, with all the money thrown at poverty in the US, is there still poverty? For Weil, the answer to this question is that the programs and money were directed at the wrong problems. Because they were programs by those who had for those who did not have, the misrelation in power continued — in many ways, the rich instituted programs that would continue to benefit them and maintain their hold on power.
For the sake of the recognition of obligations, politics must be directed at helping society to awaken to them. But anyone reading the paper and listening to politicians catering to interest groups can see that this is impossible. We are at a stage where there is nothing but a demand for rights. there is no collective appreciation for the necessity of collectively awakening to our sense of obligations. To do so IMO would require providing the means for society to serve the needs of the soul described later in the book.
For Simone Weil, without this supernatural world, we are left to a human world where power and force hold sway. The struggle for power is the motor of human history, she believes. It is the human condition. It is the source of human suffering and injustice. In her analysis, there is no human answer to this struggle for power, nor is it possible to stop the struggle with any form of ideology, such as Marxism or capitalism or any other form of human-made political system.
Left to our own devices, the nature of our being assures a large country devolving into a society dominated by power and force when in need. Nothing else is possible for us.
Secularism strives to substitute its platitudes for the effects of the experience of grace. it is impossible because as we are, we collectively fall victim to power and force that can only be controlled through social slavery.
The eligibility issue is a perfect example of loss of the sense of obligation. The constitution includes obligations one of which are the requirements to be president. Those with the progressive agenda seek to ignore it for what they believe to be the pursuit of "rights." The Progressive agenda considers itself as God. It cannot accept its limitations so must follow the path to social slavery.
"Humanism was not wrong in thinking that truth, beauty, liberty, and equality are of infinite value, but in thinking that man can get them for himself without grace." Simone Weil
If Obama understood this he would feel a sense of obligation to the Constitution that preserves rights. He doesn't and places himself and secular idolatry above the Constitution by intentionally avoiding his obligation to it.
Supporting the Birther movement is the support of the recognition of our obligations to the Constitution that serves to support and sustain a free society. It is the support of a necessary obligation that serves to make "rights" possible.
St. Pallor, what does that mean, "being 'mixed'"?
SPG, news flash. Calling someone a "mulatto" is not being polite. It can be consdered offensive. And we all know what people are calling the President behind closed doors. NO one is that naive. And no I never said anything regarding my race. However you might want to reread what SheShe said to you earlier in this thread....
I haven't had a word exchanged with SheShe since last week. If she posted in this thread, I didn't see it.
Nick, you're making confusing and conflicting statements about religion, humanism and secularism. Do you truly understand the basic precepts and tenents within each dogma?
St. Pallor, what does that mean, "being 'mixed'"?
Aren't you paying any attention to Black Lion?
And I see you're still on the juvenile name calling, huh?
Sorry, it's St. Putrid. I forgot. My bad.
Sorry, it's St. Putrid. I forgot. My bad
Just curious, do your so called internet buddies encourage this?
Do they have you believing that you are appearing "cute" when you post this stuff?
Are they LOL'ing in private with at you?
Notice that it's just YOU doing it.
Didn't your mother ever teach you that a true friend won't let you make a fool out of yourself, especially in public?
Also, didn't your mother ever teach you to take pride in yourself?
And to think . . . . it is people like you who are validating the President.
Annie said: "So, one can only identify as a black if they live or lived in a ghetto? Is that right, rikker?" No. I didn't grow up in the ghetto. But I was there visiting relatives every weekend. I would suggest that every black person has relatives that live in the ghetto. And I would further suggest that every black person has someone like Rev. Wright within, not 6 degrees of separation, but 3. Black nationalist rhetoric and racism is very common, more than you know.
The most important part of growing up in the ghetto is "rep". I never feared wandering around the ghetto at night because my family had "rep", which means that we left no slights unanswered. If there was a beef, there were a lot of us. The last time I counted I had 65 first cousins. And that was 30 years ago.
I guess my point is that the black experience is .... different. Up until today I hadn't tried to quantify it. Forgive me if I am not as articulate as I ought to be.
I guess I also had "rep", rikker. I worked at Mt. Zion, a hospital in SF located in "teh ghetto". I got a free bus rides to and from the hospital, where I worked as a night RN in the pediatric ICU. I could almost anywhere in the neighborhood without fear. The parents who were released from San Bruno jail each night and came to see their kids on the pedi unit, respected me for my care and clinical expertise. So, am I black or white?
Frankly, "rikker" you talk out of both sides of your mouth.
The 'Black experience' is just that.......a BLACK experience! This entire thread is a bunch of WHITE people trying to explain the BLACK experience, which is the biggest 'crock of chit' I think I've ever witnessed!
Nick said: "You've written this only because you like so many others have forgotten that it is only through the awareness of obligations initiating with a higher origin that rights become possible."
Nick, don't be naive. Rights are government insured lollipops that are ASSURED by force. If the government chooses not to enforce your rights, all you can do it whine and/or go postal.
The wording in all our glorifious sounding founding documents are backed up by guns. If the guns don't say no, you can be lynched and whipped and stolen from at will. I'm black. I know.
Annie said: "Frankly, "rikker" you talk out of both sides of your mouth."
Whatever "rep" you may have had in the ghetto proceeded from respect/need for your services. My "rep" (as a child) proceeded from the knowledge that any infringements upon my person would be avenged by someone a lot bigger and stronger. It had nothing to do with me, because I was just a little kid from the suburbs with a smart mouth. My uncles, however, had earned their place in the community, and their rep provided my immunity.
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