GrateWire » Topic: 2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship

GrateWire » Topic: 2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship News & Opinion - Grated Fresh Daily en-US Tue, 21 May 2013 21:54:44 +0000 http://bbpress.org/?v=1.0.2 <![CDATA[Search]]> q http://gratewire.com/search.php Nick_A on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28704 Sat, 05 Mar 2011 22:04:33 +0000 Nick_A 28704@http://gratewire.com/ Hi Marisa My comment has to do with the original thread title. I thought every presidential candidate had to prove his eligibility. I thought that was standard stuff since the beginning. You must be a natural born citizen to be POTUS. So why is this news? Just asking... The reason it is news is because we've been hoaxed. It is true that a presidential candidate must be a natural born citizen but Obama was never certified. Everyone was afraid to say anything because of accusations of racism. But it is quite a scam. As odd as it may seem,Obama was never certified as constituionally eligible nor was anyone required to do so. <a href="http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_29646.php" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.libertynewsonline.com/article_301_29646.php</a> Maskell told WND he wrote it because so many members of Congress were getting questions from constituents about the issue, and they wanted to know how to respond. It would explain why so many mailed and e-mailed responses to constituents on the issue of eligibility sound just alike. The CRS begins the memo by stating the problem: "Many of the inquiries have questioned why then-Senator, and now President, Obama has not had to produce an original, so-called 'long' version of a 'birth certificate' from the State of Hawaii, how federal candidates are 'vetted' for qualifications generally, and have asked for an assessment of the various allegations and claims of non-eligibility status." In other words, senators and members of the House could not explain why nobody ever saw Obama's long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate, and they needed a ready answer to give angry constituents who were writing, faxing and telephoning their offices for an answer. The second full paragraph of the CRS memo must be read in its entirety to understand fully the circumstance that allowed a candidate for whom documentation was concealed from the public to be elected and sworn in as president. It states: "Concerning the production or release of an original birth certificate, it should be noted that there is no federal law, regulation, rule, guideline, or requirement that a candidate for federal office produce his or her original birth certificate, or a certified copy of the record of live birth, to any official of the United States government; nor is there a requirement for federal candidates to publicly release such personal record or documentation. Furthermore, there is no specific federal agency or office that 'vets' candidates for federal office as to qualifications or eligibility prior to return." What the CRS admits is that Obama got a pass from Congress and the federal government as a whole on his birth qualifications under Article 2, Section 1. Nobody in Congress or the federal government sought to look for Obama's certified long-form, hospital-generated birth certificate, because no law or regulation required them to look. After the document was written, nobody in Congress could claim that Congress or anyone else in the federal government had reviewed Obama's birth certificate or determined Obama was eligible to be president. It simply did not happen. Then to make matters worse, Pelosi signs a document with an important sentence removed making it meaningless. Talk about chutzpah! The following link includes pictures of both documents <a href="http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=109363" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=109363</a> "The DNC drafted, signed and notarized TWO slightly different versions of their Official Certification of Nomination documents, not one," he wrote. "One of those documents had complete legal language, and one of them was missing the text concerning the constitutional eligibility of Barack Hussein Obama. "The version which is absent any certification of constitutional standing for the office of president is the version that was filed with every state in the country, and the one used by the DNC to elect Barack Obama president," he wrote................. ******************* Marisa, it's you tax dollars at work. What nerve! marisaTx on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28702 Sat, 05 Mar 2011 20:39:58 +0000 marisaTx 28702@http://gratewire.com/ My comment has to do with the original thread title. I thought every presidential candidate had to prove his eligibility. I thought that was standard stuff since the beginning. You must be a natural born citizen to be POTUS. So why is this news? Just asking... St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28310 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:21:59 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28310@http://gratewire.com/ I thought the Boy Scouts were as American as "apple pie" Boy Scouts is an international organization . . . always has been. It started in America in 1910 and it started in Indonesia in 1912 <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerakan_Pramuka_Indonesia" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerakan_Pramuka_Indonesia</a> <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Boy_Scouts" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Boy_Scouts</a> Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28299 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 08:03:07 +0000 Black Lion 28299@http://gratewire.com/ I am not interested in doing the President any favors nor does he have any sort of identity crisis except in your narrow mind.... Now marching in front of the leader of the country you happen to be living in while a member of a boy scout troop now means he is somehow "unAmerican"? Really? That is a stretch, even for you. I thought the Boy Scouts were as American as "apple pie" and Mom....I had more chills come down my spine when George Bush kissed the Saudi Prince as President than the actions of a 6 year old.... SPG, you need to free your mind.... St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28294 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:51:32 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28294@http://gratewire.com/ Black Lion - You're not really doing Obama any favors defending his identity crisis. The more we look into his past and realize his "experiences", the more UNAMERICAN he appears to be. As a child, he marched in front of the Indonesian President? That alone appears to command a certain "loyalty" to a foreign government. It actually sends chills down my spine. You need to open your mind, Black Lion. Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28290 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:43:03 +0000 Black Lion 28290@http://gratewire.com/ SPG, How about you read his books and find out? The point was why he might identify HIMSELF as being Black. And he explains that in his books. Anyone not reading challenged would understand that his mother made it her duty for him to understand that he was Black and to recognize the struggle that Black people endured in order to be seen as equals. His mother understood that at the time, the 1960's that her son would be considered Black and she wanted him to embrace his hertiage. You continue to attack the president for something only you see as an issue, that he doesn't identify himself under the offensive or disgusting term "mulatto", or the more socially acceptable term mixed. You seem to be offended that he does not consider his "white heritage"... In other words you feel you know more about his life and upbringing and do to this so called knowledge he is somehow "lying". Again I would suggest you read his books. You will discover why he identifies himself as a Black person. Which again is his right to do. Only someone with some sort of ridiculous agenda would attempt to attack someone for using his experiences to identify himself that way. We both know you can't understand because you are neither Mixed nor Black and did not grow up with his experiences. So your attempt to use your warped ideas of how he should identify himself exposes your lack of appreciation of the choices of others... And since it was his mother I would hazard a guess that he would know what is mother was thinking or feeling better than you would. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28288 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 07:25:43 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28288@http://gratewire.com/ In his book Dreams From My Father, Obama wrote the following in regards to understanding his heritage and culture and the role his mother played in his understanding: "Her message came to embrace black people generally" Where is the message to deny that he is white? And I see he is making sepculations on what his mother "might" have said/thought: If I told her about the goose-stepping demonstrations my Indonesian Boy Scout troop performed in front of the president, she might mention a different kind of march, a march of children no older than me, a march for freedom. Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28274 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 05:17:11 +0000 Black Lion 28274@http://gratewire.com/ In regards to the earlier part of the thread regarding why the President views himself the way he does, maybe this excerpt from his book will help explain it... In his book Dreams From My Father, Obama wrote the following in regards to understanding his heritage and culture and the role his mother played in his understanding: <blockquote> Her message came to embrace black people generally. She would come home with books on the civil rights movement, the recordings of Mahalia Jackson, the speeches of Dr. King. When she told me stories of schoolchildren in the South who were forced to read books handed down from wealthier white schools but who went on to become doctors and lawyers and scientists, I felt chastened by my reluctance to wake up and study in the mornings. If I told her about the goose-stepping demonstrations my Indonesian Boy Scout troop performed in front of the president, she might mention a different kind of march, a march of children no older than me, a march for freedom. Every black man was Thurgood Marshall or Sidney Poitier; every black woman Fannie Lou Hamer or Lena Horne. To be black was to be the beneficiary of a great inheritance, a special destiny, glorious burdens that only we were strong enough to bear. [Page 50-51] </blockquote> Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28270 Fri, 04 Mar 2011 05:06:51 +0000 Black Lion 28270@http://gratewire.com/ Nick, what proof do we have of where President Kennedy was born? Can you show us his BC or similar document? What about Reagan or Bush? You are a hypocrite. You claim that we know nothing about President Obama but we do. We know his parents name, where he was born, date and time, where he went to school, and all other relevant and not so relevant facts. So me proof that you can document of some other recent President's information that you cannot see of President Obama's...I am tired of this lie that we don't know anything about the President. And again you keep lying about the COLB? WHY is that? The COLB is certified proof of birth in HI. HI only requires additional proof in the cases of "Native" Hawaiians who are requesting special additional benefits. It is amazing. This is why the birthers are so pathetic. They recycle the same lies, "The COLB is not suffcient" without ever providing any proof to support their claims. But that's OK. Because the lies are easily refuted. When are you going to understand that all requirements regarding the Constituion have been met. Which is why the President is still in office. I always challenge any birther the same thing. So us even one example of where an HI COLB was deemed insuffcient for any sort of proof. Better yet, show us even one example of someone getting a HI COLB that states they were born in HI when it has been proved that they were not born there since statehood. Or show us even one example of someone getting this magical "long form" from HI since 2007, the year the President received his COLB and was told that was the only form released. Of course you will ignore those challenges because they undercut your ridiculous story and outright lie that the President hasn't submitted proof of citizenship or his COLB is not suffcient. But continue to come up with your "theories", I have fun easily refuting them due to lack of proof. rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28125 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:46:58 +0000 rikker 28125@http://gratewire.com/ You knew nothing before the lawyers got involved. Who's fault is that? barbnaples on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28119 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:30:44 +0000 barbnaples 28119@http://gratewire.com/ We know nothing....it's all in the lawyer's vault! rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28107 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 14:06:05 +0000 rikker 28107@http://gratewire.com/ We know exactly as much about Obama as we knew about all the other presidents. More, even. He has, at least, shown his COLB. None of the others did. I suppose we can conclude that they all were born elsewhere, too. Nick_A on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28092 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 12:32:22 +0000 Nick_A 28092@http://gratewire.com/ BL. Proof of natural born citizenship is a constitutional requirement. Even if papers were lost, they can be recovered because hospitals have records of them. If a person were born in a taxi, they would be taken to a hospital. it would be on file. The point is that nothing is known about Obama. If anyone wants to research President Kennedy, it would not take long to learn where he was born. it isn't that way with Obama. Nothing is known. The COLB is not proof of natural born citizenship because as has been previously shown, a person doesn't have to be born in HI to get one. Even HI doesn't accept it in certain instances where better proof is required. The presidency is the highest office in the land. is it any surprise that its constitutional requirments should be satisfied? Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28086 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 12:24:33 +0000 Black Lion 28086@http://gratewire.com/ Nick, agreed....For 200 plus years Presidents have supplied certain pieces of proof....And all 43 Presidents ever elected have provided this same amount of proof. If a state want to require a birth certificate, I say go ahead. However all they will be getting from a majority of states is a COLB. No magic long form. No proof that parents were citizens. No doctor or hospital signature. That is not only not going to happen, it is illegal to require and unconstitutional. So Nick if you say that proof of birth is required, then no one will disagree with you. But if you attempt to qualify and place illegal definitions on what a BC is, then you have a problem. So Nick, is a COLB suffcient? Or are you now requiring some sort of "long form" that does not exist? Nick_A on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28083 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 12:11:08 +0000 Nick_A 28083@http://gratewire.com/ George Orwell's assertion in his book 1984 has been proven right. People when indoctrinated can be conditioned to believe anything, even that 2+2=5. They can believe that even though the Constitution requires a presidential candidate to be a natural born citizen, it is the lowest insult to ask for proof of natural born citizenship. it doesn't add up but that doesn't stop progress. Chareese on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28075 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:35:11 +0000 Chareese 28075@http://gratewire.com/ (-: Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28073 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:31:20 +0000 Annie 28073@http://gratewire.com/ I can smell the GOP desperation from my liberal front porch here in Marin. The St. Paulie and LANR stench reaches even the far flung corners of liberalism here in Northern California. :-) Chareese on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28072 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:26:13 +0000 Chareese 28072@http://gratewire.com/ Amen! Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28071 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:25:00 +0000 Black Lion 28071@http://gratewire.com/ Chareese, the right wing GOP are transparent with their ridiculous and pathetic attacks....They are so desperate to smear the President that they will make up anything, even if it contradicts what they said before if they think it will help to defeat President Obama....It is hilarious.... Chareese on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28069 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:22:43 +0000 Chareese 28069@http://gratewire.com/ BL, LOL......when are these people going to learn to remember what they have said in the past. I guess it really doesn't matter to their fans because they don't have good memories either! (-: Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/6#post-28064 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 11:10:18 +0000 Black Lion 28064@http://gratewire.com/ It looks like good ol Rush Limpballs agrees with some on this thread.... <h1>Limbaugh: "Barry Obama" Comes From A "Very White" Background -- "He's Not From Da 'Hood"</h1> <div>1 hour and 29 minutes ago</div> From the March 3 edition of Premiere Radio Networks' The Rush Limbaugh Show: <a href="http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201103030022" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201103030022</a> Interesting...Yet less than 2 years ago Limpballs had this to say about the President... <h1>On FOX, Limbaugh says of Obama's Gates answer: "President Obama is black. And I think he's got a chip on his shoulder"</h1> <div>July 23, 2009 11:47 pm ET</div> <div></div> <div><a href="http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907230055" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200907230055</a></div> <div></div> <div>So according to Rush the President is either Black or not that Black....Which basically follows the GOP standard of attack of the President. When it was politically viable, it was OK to call the President Black. Now the GOP "brains" have decided to play up the fact that the President may not be "Black enough", in other words attempt to place a wedge between the Black and other minority support of the President by trying to claim that he isn't really "Black"....How pathetic...But it makes sense why some on this thread were so adamant that the President was a "fraud" because he identifies himself as Black or doesn't acknowledge that he is a "mulatto"....Very interesting....</div> rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28049 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 09:25:43 +0000 rikker 28049@http://gratewire.com/ Annie said: "Frankly, "rikker" you talk out of both sides of your mouth." Whatever "rep" you may have had in the ghetto proceeded from respect/need for your services. My "rep" (as a child) proceeded from the knowledge that any infringements upon my person would be avenged by someone a lot bigger and stronger. It had nothing to do with me, because I was just a little kid from the suburbs with a smart mouth. My uncles, however, had earned their place in the community, and their rep provided my immunity. rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28047 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 09:20:38 +0000 rikker 28047@http://gratewire.com/ Nick said: "You've written this only because you like so many others have forgotten that it is only through the awareness of obligations initiating with a higher origin that rights become possible." Nick, don't be naive. Rights are government insured lollipops that are ASSURED by force. If the government chooses not to enforce your rights, all you can do it whine and/or go postal. The wording in all our glorifious sounding founding documents are backed up by guns. If the guns don't say no, you can be lynched and whipped and stolen from at will. I'm black. I know. Chareese on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28044 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 09:13:47 +0000 Chareese 28044@http://gratewire.com/ The 'Black experience' is just that.......a BLACK experience! This entire thread is a bunch of WHITE people trying to explain the BLACK experience, which is the biggest 'crock of chit' I think I've ever witnessed! Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28037 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:48:49 +0000 Annie 28037@http://gratewire.com/ I guess I also had "rep", rikker. I worked at Mt. Zion, a hospital in SF located in "teh ghetto". I got a free bus rides to and from the hospital, where I worked as a night RN in the pediatric ICU. I could almost anywhere in the neighborhood without fear. The parents who were released from San Bruno jail each night and came to see their kids on the pedi unit, respected me for my care and clinical expertise. So, am I black or white? Frankly, "rikker" you talk out of both sides of your mouth. rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28035 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:38:43 +0000 rikker 28035@http://gratewire.com/ Annie said: "So, one can only identify as a black if they live or lived in a ghetto? Is that right, rikker?" No. I didn't grow up in the ghetto. But I was there visiting relatives every weekend. I would suggest that every black person has relatives that live in the ghetto. And I would further suggest that every black person has someone like Rev. Wright within, not 6 degrees of separation, but 3. Black nationalist rhetoric and racism is very common, more than you know. The most important part of growing up in the ghetto is "rep". I never feared wandering around the ghetto at night because my family had "rep", which means that we left no slights unanswered. If there was a beef, there were a lot of us. The last time I counted I had 65 first cousins. And that was 30 years ago. I guess my point is that the black experience is .... different. Up until today I hadn't tried to quantify it. Forgive me if I am not as articulate as I ought to be. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28033 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:38:20 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28033@http://gratewire.com/ Sorry, it's St. Putrid. I forgot. My bad Just curious, do your so called internet buddies encourage this? Do they have you believing that you are appearing "cute" when you post this stuff? Are they LOL'ing in private with at you? Notice that it's just YOU doing it. Didn't your mother ever teach you that a true friend won't let you make a fool out of yourself, especially in public? Also, didn't your mother ever teach you to take pride in yourself? And to think . . . . it is people like you who are validating the President. Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28030 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:31:01 +0000 Annie 28030@http://gratewire.com/ Sorry, it's St. Putrid. I forgot. My bad. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28026 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:24:50 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28026@http://gratewire.com/ St. Pallor, what does that mean, "being 'mixed'"? Aren't you paying any attention to Black Lion? And I see you're still on the juvenile name calling, huh? Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28024 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:22:53 +0000 Annie 28024@http://gratewire.com/ Nick, you're making confusing and conflicting statements about religion, humanism and secularism. Do you truly understand the basic precepts and tenents within each dogma? St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28023 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:22:31 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28023@http://gratewire.com/ I haven't had a word exchanged with SheShe since last week. If she posted in this thread, I didn't see it. Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28022 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:20:28 +0000 Black Lion 28022@http://gratewire.com/ SPG, news flash. Calling someone a "mulatto" is not being polite. It can be consdered offensive. And we all know what people are calling the President behind closed doors. NO one is that naive. And no I never said anything regarding my race. However you might want to reread what SheShe said to you earlier in this thread.... Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28021 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:19:36 +0000 Annie 28021@http://gratewire.com/ St. Pallor, what does that mean, "being 'mixed'"? Nick_A on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28020 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:18:04 +0000 Nick_A 28020@http://gratewire.com/ Rikker You surprise me. How can you post such erudite ideas about materialism vs a purposeful life and still be a birther? Don't you see the dichotomy there? Birthers live in an alternate reality. Your comments about being able to make an educated vote are a flimsy ruse. Truthfully, you wouldn't vote for Obama even if his parents were George Washington and Aretha Franklin. The birther underpinnings are a cheap excuse. And on the other hand, you've quoted an obviously intelligent, perceptive individual. What gives? You're straddling a fence, buddy. You either live in the intelligent world or you live in SPG-land with the other waterheads. Which is it? You've written this only because you like so many others have forgotten that it is only through the awareness of obligations initiating with a higher origin that rights become possible. Simone Weil is in a unique position to vivify this question because she lived all its parts. She was an atheist and Marxist admired by Leon Trotsky and died a Christian mystic and intellectual influence on Pope Paul Vl. She was not a follower but instead verified her own philosophy by living it. Her life was a continual experiment in search of truth. In The Need for Roots she elaborates on the necessary balance between obligations and rights necessary to sustain a free society that serves the soul of Man. This isn't something we are capable of through our own volition but something that can be awakened in Man's psych with help from above in the form of "grace." Obligations are our link to the spiritual while rights are what we personally strive for. it is obligations that make rights possible. It might be a truism that true change in a society cannot occur unless there is a subjective change as well. There is an example of this in alcohol or drug treatment programs. Unless the person wants to change, all the counseling and the support groups will not make a person change. For Weil, on the social level, this is true of societies as well. In her analysis of history and revolutions, she showed that every revolution ultimately replaced one form of oppression with another. For her, this showed that the reality of history is struggle for power. This is why she believed that for true change, a spiritual awakening must occur in individual conscience. Take an example: why, with all the money thrown at poverty in the US, is there still poverty? For Weil, the answer to this question is that the programs and money were directed at the wrong problems. Because they were programs by those who had for those who did not have, the misrelation in power continued — in many ways, the rich instituted programs that would continue to benefit them and maintain their hold on power. For the sake of the recognition of obligations, politics must be directed at helping society to awaken to them. But anyone reading the paper and listening to politicians catering to interest groups can see that this is impossible. We are at a stage where there is nothing but a demand for rights. there is no collective appreciation for the necessity of collectively awakening to our sense of obligations. To do so IMO would require providing the means for society to serve the needs of the soul described later in the book. For Simone Weil, without this supernatural world, we are left to a human world where power and force hold sway. The struggle for power is the motor of human history, she believes. It is the human condition. It is the source of human suffering and injustice. In her analysis, there is no human answer to this struggle for power, nor is it possible to stop the struggle with any form of ideology, such as Marxism or capitalism or any other form of human-made political system. Left to our own devices, the nature of our being assures a large country devolving into a society dominated by power and force when in need. Nothing else is possible for us. Secularism strives to substitute its platitudes for the effects of the experience of grace. it is impossible because as we are, we collectively fall victim to power and force that can only be controlled through social slavery. The eligibility issue is a perfect example of loss of the sense of obligation. The constitution includes obligations one of which are the requirements to be president. Those with the progressive agenda seek to ignore it for what they believe to be the pursuit of "rights." The Progressive agenda considers itself as God. It cannot accept its limitations so must follow the path to social slavery. "Humanism was not wrong in thinking that truth, beauty, liberty, and equality are of infinite value, but in thinking that man can get them for himself without grace." Simone Weil If Obama understood this he would feel a sense of obligation to the Constitution that preserves rights. He doesn't and places himself and secular idolatry above the Constitution by intentionally avoiding his obligation to it. Supporting the Birther movement is the support of the recognition of our obligations to the Constitution that serves to support and sustain a free society. It is the support of a necessary obligation that serves to make "rights" possible. Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28019 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:17:50 +0000 Black Lion 28019@http://gratewire.com/ Rikker good points. For Black people that grew up in the suburbs in middle class to affluent neighborhoods, they might have not thought about what exactly it means to be "Black", but they were reminded of it every day in school when they were a small percentage, every time they were followed in a store for no reason, or when parents wouldn't allow their kids to play with them. No matter who you grew up with, those experiences happened. So you quickly learned that no matter what, you were "Black" first and foremost, no matter how light you happend to be. That was just how it was at that time. Fortunately for us things have evolved and it is somewhat better, and could be a lot better. And as for MF, if I had used that term in my house my mother would have killed me, even though I loved it when Richard Pryor would say it.... St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28018 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:15:38 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28018@http://gratewire.com/ Black Lion - I was being polite calling him Mulatto . . . . Should we leave it at that, or would you like to know what most people call him? And BTW - Nobody on this forum has identified themselves as being "mixed". Maybe you thought you had? St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28017 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:13:46 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28017@http://gratewire.com/ So, Pallid, you'd like to have a "percentage requirement" of DNA and "blood" so one can refer to themselves as black? Ut Oh - Looks like the tide is changing . . . . Note your buddy's comment above. Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28016 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:13:23 +0000 Annie 28016@http://gratewire.com/ So, one can only identify as a black if they live or lived in a ghetto? Is that right, rikker? Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28015 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:12:29 +0000 Black Lion 28015@http://gratewire.com/ LOLOLOL.....SPG, you still know how to take ignorance to the next level. After 2 days you still enjoy using an inherently nasty, offensive, and possibly racist term that you have no right to use. Even when people who are mixed have informed you that the term is not correct nor to be used. But I guess since you have decided to self identify yourself as ignorant, there is nothing anyone can do about that. Fortunately for us you are in a very small minority. And whether or not you want to accept it, most of the world identifies the President as he identifies himself, as Black. So unfortunately for you and your ilk, most people accept his decision and identify him the way he would be identified in 1971, as Black. And whatever is locked away in any vault is none of your business. Since he is doing what every other President has done, those not suffering from Obama derangement syndrome like you understand that. It is not too late. You can get help for your problems. I will say this, if you are representative of how people think in St Paul, MN, I am glad I have no reason to visit that city. I would not be too accepting of someone calling me a "mulatto"... rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28013 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:10:45 +0000 rikker 28013@http://gratewire.com/ BL said: "The President has no identity crisis. He knows that he is Black." Why is he black? I have to take issue with that. Obama CHOOSES to identify with black people. But he was NOT raised as a black person. His outlooks are due to a few minor prejudicial incidents and his knowledge of American history. He didn't grow up in a ghetto or near one. He didn't have to fistfight as a youngster, or learn to play the dozens, or.... Hmmmmmm. You know what? It just occurred to me that I'm not as black as I thought I was. Those two things (fistfighting and playing the dozens) are my only uniquely black cultural items, too. I grew up catching frogs and playing baseball and skiing and skating and fumbling around with the girl next door until she broke up with me due to ineptitude. Fairly normal American things. I had to be taught how to say MF like a black person, because my cousins said that mis-using that particular curse word like a white person would invite ridicule. but that's about it. I wonder what Obama's experience was? Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28012 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:09:34 +0000 Annie 28012@http://gratewire.com/ So, Pallid, you'd like to have a "percentage requirement" of DNA and "blood" so one can refer to themselves as black? You're becoming more idiotic and moronic by the minute. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28010 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:02:42 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28010@http://gratewire.com/ Black Lion . . . (yawn) Just because some guy who happens to be "mixed" decides to identify himself as a black man, that doesn't me the rest of the world has to go along with it. He is Mulatto - there is no denying that. It's not a secret, although Obama would surely like it to be locked away in the vault with the rest of his life. He has the identity crisis going on, but I'm the bad guy for recognizing it. Get real. Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28008 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:00:34 +0000 Annie 28008@http://gratewire.com/ Black Lion: you've read and heard the phrase "color me stupid"? That's St. Pallid. Black Lion on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28005 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:56:25 +0000 Black Lion 28005@http://gratewire.com/ The award for most hilarious statement on this thread goes to SGP for posting the following nonsense... "And as far as Obama goes . . . . He has an identity crisis. He cannot accept who he is and presents himself as someone else, therefore he is rendered a FRAUD." The President has no identity crisis. He knows that he is Black. I mean think about it. He has known that since he was a little kid. However, SPG has decided that she is the judge on how people should view themselves. Amazing. In SPG's warped and myopic view, the President is a fraud because he following the social views and attitudes of the time in which he grew up and by his skin color identified himself as "Black"....He has identified himself this way since he was a young man. Yet that is not suffcient for SPG. She has decided that he should identify himself as a "mulatto", a derogatory term, because that is the way allegedly people who are of mixed backgrounds (Black and White) in St Paul, MN identify themselves. Fortunately for us America is becoming more elightened in regards to race. I have multiple friends in interracial relationships with children (who I would never address as a mulatto) that think nothing of race in any sort of negative context anymore. These are the signs that this country is evolving. Some people will never get it, and that's too bad. However it is also good to see that SPG's ridiculous tirade regarding the President being some sort of "fraud" because he sees and identifies himself a Black was not cosigned by anyone else. I know on this forum we are supposed to respect people and their opinions, even ones that attempt to set us back 50 years in race relations. But I am an optimist and see the glass as half full, meaning that this country is moving ahead. Hopefully we can get to a point that we move beyond the social construction as race and decide to judge someone on what they do and who they are. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28004 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:56:09 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 28004@http://gratewire.com/ Hey Valtrex Boy - Only in your mind are you correct about the profit. You should only see who is laughing at you . . . . but that's old News. I'm more interested in your vocabulary 'mistake' now. It was a gem, but only because you had the balls to proclaim yourself to be a MASTER OF VOCABULARY. Didn't think I'd catch that "mistake" did you? LOL - My day is made !!!! rikker on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-28001 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:50:08 +0000 rikker 28001@http://gratewire.com/ SPG quoted Rikker's errant statement: "he might be in seen in the same light as people " You're right about that, SPG. Sometimes I type so fast that I mis-speak. This sentence is flawed. At least I'm intelligent enough to admit when I make errors. You spent WEEKS defending a retard's understanding of profit % and enduring the silent laughter of your friends and allies. All of them knew you were being punked. None of them warned you. They let you prattle on. Run Forrest!! Run!!! Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-27998 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:47:34 +0000 Annie 27998@http://gratewire.com/ See, you just proved you don't know a thing about Florence Nightingale. I'm a much better nurse than old FloDawg. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-27996 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:46:13 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 27996@http://gratewire.com/ Paulie, obviouisly, you know nothing about Florence Nightingale. Some of the best nurses in the world have been staunch activists and vocal, if not obnoxious at times. My tirades against you, though, have nothing to do with my nursing acumen. Get a grip, sweetie. OMG - You are not seriously comparing yourself to Florence Nightingale, are you? Talk about someone needing to get a grip !! And Annie, you are a disgusting pig, not just an obnoxious one. Annie on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-27992 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:43:02 +0000 Annie 27992@http://gratewire.com/ Paulie, it's obvious, you know nothing about Florence Nightingale. Some of the best nurses in the world have been staunch activists and vocal, if not obnoxious at times. My tirades against you, though, have nothing to do with my nursing acumen. Get a grip, sweetie. St. Paulie Girl on "2 Tennessee GOP lawmakers want presidential candidates to prove citizenship" http://gratewire.com/topic/2-tennessee-gop-lawmakers-want-presidential-candidates-to-prove-citizenship/page/5#post-27989 Thu, 03 Mar 2011 07:41:01 +0000 St. Paulie Girl 27989@http://gratewire.com/ Annie Are those sores on your hands healing, Pull-A-Girl? You really do have a obsession with internet sexual deviant behavior, don't you? What would your children think of you if you allowed them to read what you write? You must be one terrific mother.